And the Inductees Are…
February 26th, 2008 | 6:30 pm est |
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announced its inductees and their respective presenters today for the big annual bash held at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City on March 10.
Here is this year’s list:
Songwriters and producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff will be inducted by vocalist and songwriter Jerry Butler. The three collaborated plentifully, but most notably on the smash single “Only the Strong Survive.” That said, the honorees are arguably better known for the O’Jays’ smash “Love Train.”
- “Only the Strong Survive”
- “Love Train”
Madonna will be inducted by Justin Timberlake. This is, in its own way, self-explanatory: Madonna the icon has been — in one way or another — the very definition of “pop culture.” This alone doesn’t make for a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee. But her dozens of chart hits, and her role in bringing wide exposure to DJs by commissioning remixes that became hits as well, speaks loudly.
-
“Get Into the Groove”
- “Express Yourself”
The Ventures (Bob Bogle, Nokie Edwards, Gerry McGee, Mel Taylor, Don Wilson) will be inducted by John Fogerty. While the Ventures were not the first, they were certainly the most popular and longest-lasting rock instrumental combo ever — and are still touring in some form. The first big hit was “Walk Don’t Run.” These smoking Mosrite guitar whammy-bar gurus also laid down the theme to the TV show Hawaii Five-O. The amazing thing is, the Ventures didn’t write either tune. In fact, compared to their own creations like “Dick Tracy,” the bigger hits sounded tame.
- “Walk Don’t Run”
- “Hawaii Five-O”
- “Dick Track”
Leonard Cohen will be inducted by Lou Reed. I’d like to hear that backstage conversation. Leonard is among the great songwriters who have had a wide range of artists, from Judy Collins and Joan Baez to Nick Cave and Jeff Buckley, cover his songs.
- Joan Baez - “Suzanne”
- Jeff Buckley - “Hallelujah”
Fabled bluesman Little Walter Jacobs will be inducted by Ben Harper. Little Walter is best known for his work with Muddy Waters beginning in 1948. But he also scored his own hits for Chess beginning with “Juke” in 1952, and notched 14 Top Ten hits on the R&B charts as a solo artist. In 1964, he toured Great Britain with the Rolling Stones. He is being inducted into the Hall of Fame for his work a sideman.
- “Juke”
The Dave Clark Five will be inducted by Tom Hanks. Not as well known as some of their British Invasion countrymen, the Dave Clark Five were nonetheless a startling live act that nailed down big singles on both sides of the pond. They were also the first rock & roll band to be named for its drummer.
- “Any Way You Want It”
John Mellencamp will be inducted by Billy Joel. ‘Nuff said.
- “Jack and Diane”
- “R.O.C.K. in the U.S.A.”
No matter what you think of the rest, Little Walter, Gamble & Huff, and the Ventures are all but indisputable. (AMG editor Tim Sendra does dispute the latter, making the point that, since the Ventures are being inducted ahead of the Monkees, the entire process is corrupt.) My own question is simply this: How did relative newcomers to the music like R.E.M., U2, and the Police get there ahead of any of these three acts, or the Dave Clark Five, for that matter? We’d love to read your thoughts.
I think it is high time The Ventures and Dave Clark Five get inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I am still waiting to see a list of inductees that include just Rock & Roll artists. I get that Rock & Roll is a cross bred genre of blue, rhythm & blues, country and every other form of popular music of the 20th century - but each of those other forms have their own Hall of Fames be they big or small. For every one hit wonder R&B act that has been inducted there has been 10 Rock & Roll artists from the same time period ignored. Madonna had been a great music industry and pop culture icon - but never will be a rock and roller!
Jethro Tull has still not been nominated!
I second Bob Boatman. Actually, I was about to make the same comment, but he beat me to it.
Jethro Tull was one of the first bands to play behind the Iron Curtain, they have played live in more countries than just about any other band, they are one of the only bands to play, record and tour consistently through the entire past four decades. JT played the first ever live transatlantic concert. The number of bands who list them as an influence would fill this page.
Without Madonna, there would be no Britney Spears. Is that a contribution to the world of rock?
Black Sabbath. Rush. Yes. King Crimson.
Friggin’ John Cougar Mellencamp gets in before these bands? The F-n Pretenders? They rock about as hard as my left nut… The whole thing is a load of crap as long as bands that aren’t “cool” continue to be excluded, but are a hell of a lot more influential than a lot of the bands that get in…
Seriously. The Stooges should be in by now. It’s a crime that Johnny Cougar is getting in before them. That, to me, is the big glaring omission. Might throw the Butterfield Blues Band in there while they’re at it.
How does the Hall of Fame keep overlooking Cheap Trick?
I can’t even answer my own question for you, it seems absurd to even try.
Two of the above comments point to the glaring elitism and pretentiousness of the Hall. The Hall ignores any band that the word “progressive” was every associated with. Instead, they continue to promote a critical stance that has over time congealed into the predominant cultural view that “true rock music died somewhere around 1970-71 and was resuscitated only in 1977.” I quote from an essay written by George Starostin, posted at his review website, Only Solitaire: http://starling.rinet.ru/music/essay1.htm
The essay itself, though long, is interesting and worth-reading. Note: Sarostin is not some kind of prog-nut, but is in fact very critical of the genre, whose typical defenders tend to be overzealous because of the almost constant barrage of unhelpful criticism. Allmusic also provides reviews of progessive rock music refreshingly free of the righteous axe-grinding usually found in such discussion. Sarostin evidently has his own axe to grind, but at least he has a thesis supported by arguments.
The punk-critic notion of what “true” rock music is supposed to sound like is biased and unhelpful. It is high time that it be dumped in the trash. The Hall along with it.
I’ve got good news for Doctor Z: Black Sabbath’s (rightfully) in the Hall. Now let’s be thankful that (hopefully) nobody’s even considering Journey, Foreigner, Styx or…gag to even type it…REO Speedchucker.
Huh? Why should The Monkees get in before The Ventures? I don’t see that at all.
And we know the whole process is corrupt, there are bands that will never get a nomination to get in. This was leaked a long time ago, I think it’s even on the Wikipedia page.
To the other dude, The Pretenders are influential and were a great Rock n Roll band. They belong in there, but not before The Stooges, Black Sabbath, New York Dolls, or The Ventures.
The Monkees should not get in before the Banana Splits. Period.
what other music based award system isn’t corrupt? the possibility of corruption should not be brought up since music tastes vary more than anything imaginible. In addition, one thing i HAVE noticed about the hall of fame is that they include thye major obvious choices first (R.E.M. Madonna) and then go back after the fact and may get the lesser knowns (Dave Clark Five, Little Walter) and while you do dismiss madonna keep in mind she does have a large influence (outside britney spears thank you) for instance, you won’t find anywhere on the earth where someone doesn’t know her name, and her influence extends beyond pop music. Even though I agree bands like Yes and especially King Crimson should be in the hall of fame by now i would also have to say that their influence was not as far reaching (as in, their influence extends only to hard rock music) as some of the other artists.
Don’t be so closed-minded guys…
Hey, Ladies and Gentlemen!
This institution lost all credibility when Martha and the Vandellas were elected; politically correct: they simply must get a few girls in!
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It sounds impressive! The fact that so many talented and influential musicians are overlooked and so many pop artists are included, however, does give me pause. To see Leonard Cohen and Madonna inducted at the same time seems glaringly contradictory. A fantastic musician like Ian Anderson is passed over, and John Mellencamp is chosen? Perhaps they should simply rename it the “General Music Hall of Fame”. Definitely there are some very non discerning participants in the process of choosing. Can’t there be a separate hall of fame for pop music? It’s very difficult to take it seriously when so many extraordinary musicians, including numerous progressive rock bands, are excluded. Have these people never heard Yes? Or Jethro Tull? But Madonna gets in? Why? Let’s hear her sing a Jon Anderson song! Leonard Cohen deserves every bit of recognition he’s ever gotten, but I’m disgusted with so many seemingly random and innappropriate choices. Sorry to say, but I think the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, is mostly a joke.
I don’t agree with all their choices, but I still think a lot of important bands have been recognized.
I would strongly suggest the B-52’s be on the list next year. Their comtempories like Blondie, and the Talking Heads have already been inducted, and no other band that has broken through to the mainstream has looked or sounded quite like them. The unique mark that their late ’70s and early ’80s work has left is undisputable. And then to make a come back with an album like Cosmic Thing should have firmed up their entry a long time ago.
Like most things, the R&R HOF is a great idea gone horribly wrong. The Ventures? Yes, they were marginally influential, but who influenced them? To the best of my knowledge (and I may be wrong), but neither Duane Eddy or Link Wray are in the HOF.
The Dave Clark Five? I’m a really big fan of their hits, but dig any deeper and you’ll find a marginal band at best. Who next? God forbid the day either Gary Lewis & The Playboys or Engelbert Humperdinck get in. At the rate they are going and the choices they make, just wait and see. They’ll eventually make it in.
IMO, they are overlooking a lot of influential Disc Jockeys. Many DJ’s from Chicago’s WLS (Dick Biondi for instance) and New York’s WABC (Dan Ingram) should be in. Not so much for their influence on rock in and of itself, but rather influential for continuing it’s exposure on the public. These DJ’s (along with their stations)had CHARACTER & PERSONALITY. Much more so than Dave Clark Five.
In truth, it SHOULD be called the Pop Music Hall of Fame. Rock and Roll is only a part of the greater body of popular music anyway and the term “rock and roll” has come to mean most pop music in general regardless of aesthetics. Which isn’t to say that there shouldn’t be a place for actual Chuck Berry/Rolling Stones R&R, but c’mon its naive to think ONLY true nuts and bolts rock bands should be honored here.
When Billy Joel was inducted I lost all respect for the RRHF. That being said, I think the older groups whose legacy has had time to show should get in before relative new comers. For what it’s worth, the Monkeys made some of the best pop records of their (or any) generation, but Madonna does has better boobies than Davey Jones.
How do you define corrupt? You think reps of Ventures and Mellencamp were slipping money under the table or sending strippers over to the hotels of the committee? Come on. They’re just a bunch of aging boomers with questionable taste. So be it. At least The Stooges were nominated once.
Use your noodles, people. There were always more than seven great artists emerging each year, so RRHOF will never catch up to all your pet faves.
Should Madonna be inducted, it would mean a “Hall of Sales of Record Comapanies” and not a “Rock And Roll Hall of Fame”.
It would mean this inducting play is just a euphemism for recognizing a great selling artist.
And, yes, long-time-gone-rock and roll bands, or not gone yet for that matter, should be given a tiny bit of respect by, at least, being nominated.
That is, The Stooges made the previous year’s shortlist, but have not yet been voted in.
I would have to say I applaud the recognition of the ventures and, though it probably is more just a personal fav, I’m knocked dead to hear that Leonard Cohen is getting in.
While I have to say that there are more bands than I can shake a stick at that come to mind as more important as John M. I also understand, as many have mentioned, that there are really so many that deserve to be in it’s really a shot in the dark to pick just a few.
But that doesn’t mean it isn’t still fun to make snide comments about the Hall of Fame’s choices and hurl insults down from the peanut gallery.
Hey ya’ll…..God Bless those of you who are aboard the S.S. Jethro Tull with me….For years I kept seeing “Behind the Music” specials on crappy bands on VH-1, and kept saying to myself, “Why would you not do one of these on Tull, with it’s intriguing and notable history spanning 40 years???”….Tull certainly should have been in the RRHOF long ago, if we’re basing induction on influence, talent and place in the pantheon….Johnny Cougar and Madonna are pure mediocrities, plain and simple…Halls of Fame are for the Greats….before you know it, folks will be talking about whether Bon Jovi belongs in there….common sense, to any true music lover and fan, gives the answer as NO without the word needing to be spoken….Cougar Mellonhead, Madonna, Bon Bon are all of an utterly mediocre ilk, and only the greats should be in…and regarding an earlier posting, yes, The Pretenders definitely deserve to be in there….
There is always one thing I notice when people discuss the Hall of fame. Most seem to think it is the “Rock” hall of fame and forget that it is the “Rock & Roll” Hall Of Fame. Big difference. Rock & Roll original roots were a combination, in varying portions of R&B (not what we call R&B now, but rather the blues), Country & Western, and Pop (Tin Pan Alley pop, sinatra, glen dorsey, ect). In the 60’s R&R went on to incorporate folk, jazz, gospel, classical, ect.
So by defintion of what Rock & Roll is, acts like Madonna (who I personally hate), various rap acts, ect. all do indeed deserve induction.
All the constant talk of acts like the Stooges getting in as opposed to John Mellencamp is a joke. Mellencamp, the pretenders, madonna, billy joel, ect. have all been far more influenctial on Rock & Roll, heck on society it self, than someone like the Stooges or other punk rock acts. The general public could not tell you who the stooges were or name one of thier songs if you put a gun to thier head. But they could probablly sung thier way through most of the Mellencamp catalog. Now thats fame. Thats influence. Thats deserving.
Side note, im not saying that acts like the stooges dont deserve induction, they do. Thier contribution to thier particlar corner of the Rock & Roll world must not be overlooked, but its silly argument to say they deserve it more than the more mainstream acts.
Now, while were on the subject of being over looked, KISS!!!
Where is KISS!
They are the most successfull band in american history. They have influenced everyone from Van Halen to Nirvana to Garth Brooks. The pratically invented the double live album and took music marketing to whole new unprecedented levels. (and like it or not that is a part of the whole package). The masters of the live show, and a catagalog of rock classics a mile long.
I’m fine with Madonna, Mellencamp, and Leonard Cohen, but unfortunately I’m not very familiar with the rest of the line up… but my biggest thing is the fact that bands like Yes have yet to get in! My GOODNESS just LISTEN to “Fragile”! IT’S AMAZING! But that aside… how did Miles Davis (love him to death) get into the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame? Sure he inspired a bunch of people, but his music is not what I would call “Rock and Roll”. Along the same lines… why is Tom Hanks presenting? Love that actor, but he’s not really Rock and Roll is he? or did I totally miss his solo debut?
HOLY GEEZ JOE JACKSON’S NOT IN?!?!?! I’ve just lost all faith in the Induction process… I’m pretty sure he’s old enough (first album in ‘79… 28 years…) and he rocks harder than any o’ the bloody inductees!
I can’t believe that The Moody Blues are not a part of this discussion. Talk about a great, enduring band with dozens of memorable songs and classic albums. They were true innovators and it’s unbelievable they are not in the RRHOF.
Roxy Music. Every album they’ve made is brilliant. They were certainly influential. Brian Eno and Bryan Ferry. Even U2 said during their own induction that Roxy belonged in the Hall before them.
Bubba Lee,
Sorry, I have to completely disagree with you on Kiss….they do not belong in the HOF, nor will they ever….when you need to resort to theatricality of the sort they always have, it has always stated to me that you don’t have the musical “goods,” “chops,” or whatever you choose to call it, so you need to fall back on flash….Kiss has never had any substance to them, musically speaking, and they’re little more than a money-making curiosity….it’s like wanting a steak dinner (”Sergeant Pepper’s” by the Beatles, “Moving Pictures” by Rush, “Brain Salad Surgery” by ELP), and never getting anything but a Ritz cracker instead….there’s not much there, just a lot of bluster and pyrotechnics….musically speaking (songs, substance), where’s the beef???
Has T. Rex been inducted? What about Van Der Graaf Generator & Can?? The Shaggs??? Swell Maps???? Well, atleast The Fall made it in.
How in the f–z did Steely Dan get in the R&R Hall of Fame before the Doobie Brothers?
Why does God hate the Doobie Brothers? Hey, Rankin Richard. The Fall have not been inducted into the Hall of Fame. You better watch your back, F—-z! I’ve known of guys getting hurt or killed for saying that kind of s–z! I’ve got my eye on you, pal!
bubba-lee mcgregor - “All the constant talk of acts like the Stooges getting in as opposed to John Mellencamp is a joke. Mellencamp, the pretenders, madonna, billy joel, ect. have all been far more influenctial on Rock & Roll, heck on society it self, than someone like the Stooges or other punk rock acts. The general public could not tell you who the stooges were or name one of thier songs if you put a gun to thier head. But they could probablly sung thier way through most of the Mellencamp catalog. Now thats fame. Thats influence. Thats deserving.”
Aw Bubba, you are so, so wrong. What rock have you been living under? The a vast amount of rock and culture, post-1973, including punk, post-punk, new wave, Bowie, hardcore, indie rock, AND mainstream rock, was influenced by The Stooges. You have been living under the rock house that Iggy built and didn’t even realize it. Ask Chrissie, she’ll tell you. She worshipped The Stooges as a American ex-pat writing for NME in the mid seventies, participating in the punk scene before forming The Pretenders.
You can’t say the same for Joel, Mellencamp, etc. Sure, they sold more albums. But if you want to use that criteria, might as well just induct the top 7 sellers on the Billboard charts from each year and be done with it.
Every year the same old song and dance. what are the exact criteria? the one thing the induction list provides is another excuse to pull out my copies of “Secret Treaties,” “Aqualung” and “Raw Power” and remind myself how irrelevant awards are and that hallowed halls are for tourists.
bubba-lee mcgregor - “All the constant talk of acts like the Stooges getting in as opposed to John Mellencamp is a joke. Mellencamp, the pretenders, madonna, billy joel, ect. have all been far more influenctial on Rock & Roll, heck on society it self, than someone like the Stooges or other punk rock acts. The general public could not tell you who the stooges were or name one of thier songs if you put a gun to thier head. But they could probablly sung thier way through most of the Mellencamp catalog. Now thats fame. Thats influence. Thats deserving.”
Aw Bubba, you are so, so wrong. What rock have you been living under? The a vast amount of rock and culture, post-1973, including punk, post-punk, new wave, Bowie, hardcore, indie rock, AND mainstream rock, was influenced by The Stooges. You have been living under the rock house that Iggy built and didn’t even realize it. Ask Chrissie, she’ll tell you. She worshipped The Stooges as a American ex-pat writing for NME in the mid seventies, participating in the punk scene before forming The Pretenders.
You can’t say the same for Joel, Mellencamp, etc. Sure, they sold more albums. But if you want to use that criteria, might as well just induct the top 7 sellers on the Billboard charts from each year and be done with it.
I live in the real world of music, not in the imagiginary punk rock revolutionized everything music world. Punk rock was a small, over glamorized musical ripple. While there were a number of great punk acts (you will note that I said the stooges DO deserve induction, just not at the cost of mellencamp, joel, ect) thier reach and influence have been greatly over stated by rock critics and writers who seem to think that attitide is more important than apptitude. That writting a song about ragging against an imaginary machine is more important that writting a song that people will still be listening to 30 years later.
Each type of music that falls under the Rock & Roll umbrella (as opposed to just rock) should be judged on its own merrits for what it is, not against other styles that dont relate to it.
“I live in the real world of music, not in the imagiginary punk rock revolutionized everything music world. Punk rock was a small, over glamorized musical ripple. While there were a number of great punk acts (you will note that I said the stooges DO deserve induction, just not at the cost of mellencamp, joel, ect) thier reach and influence have been greatly over stated by rock critics and writers who seem to think that attitide is more important than apptitude. That writting a song about ragging against an imaginary machine is more important that writting a song that people will still be listening to 30 years later.”
I wonder what you imagine what the “real world” of music entails. If people don’t listen to The Stooges in your world, it must be pretty sucky. In my world, I attended a sold out Stooges show at Chicago’s Congress Theatre last spring, and again at a sold-out Lollapalooza, where I saw a sea of minds get blown. They were decidedly not lacking in “aptitude.”
But perhaps you’re confusingly trying to talk about bands other than the Stooges? Sure, the original punk scenes in NYC and the UK were small, and hardly glamorized at the time. But just like, the Velvet Underground, its scope and influence has grown exponentially. If you don’t hear the influence in today’s music because you associate it only with the Ramones’ two-chord simplicity, you’ve totally missed the point.
One of the points was you didn’t have to start out as an accomplished craftsman to become a great artist, songwriter and musician. However, there were plenty of bands did have talent, and developed enough skills to become not only great bands, but made music that was original and influential. Pere Ubu, Television, Wire, The Voidoids, The Clash, The Damned, The Jam, The Saints, The Stranglers, The Adverts, X-Ray Spex, The Buzzcocks, Magazine, The Only Ones, Joy Division, Gang Of Four, Talking Heads, XTC, The Slits, The Ruts, The Specials, The Pop Group, Essential Logic, The Fall, The Feelies, X, Killing Joke, The Sound, The Soft Boys, Comsat Angels, Bad Brains, Black Flag, The Minutemen, Husker Du and many, many more had aptitude to spare. Some are already honored in the Hall of Fame, and more may still be nominated.
No one said punk should dominate the HOF. I think some were just questioning what exactly did Joel and Mellancamp contribute to music aside from a handful of catchy songs? They were hardly pioneers of anything new or fresh. There’s plenty of others more deserving. Wanda Jackson, Johnny Burnette Trio, Sonny Burgess, Warren Smith, Billy Lee Riley, Charlie Rich, George Jones, Screamin’ Jay Hawkins, Larry Williams, Willie Mitchell, Bar-Kays, the Meters, Lee Dorsey, The Pretty Things, The Creation, The Small Faces, The Zombies, Os Mutantes, Captain Beefheart, Gram Parsons, Tim Buckley, Nick Drake, Robert Wyatt, Todd Rundgren, Tom Waits, Ry Cooder, Fairport Convention, Roy Harper, Harry Nilsson, Randy Newman, War, Tower Of Power, Shuggie Otis, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever, Herbie Hancock’s Headhunters, Henry Cow, Free, Humble Pie, King Crimson, Alice Cooper, MC5, Modern Lovers, Big Star, New York Dolls, The Dictators, Suicide, Cheap Trick, The Cars, Lee “Scratch” Perry, Max Romeo, The Heptones, Junior Murvin, Jimmy Cliff, Junior Byles, Burning Spear, Toots & The Maytals, Tangerine Dream, Can, Neu!, Faust, Roxy Music, T. Rex, Brian Eno, Graham Parker, Nick Lowe, Hawkwind, Motorhead, The Replacements, The Pogues, The Smiths, Metallica, and Slayer!
First you seem to be continuing with the thought that i dont like most of what you listed. I happen to like a large portion of what you listed, including the stooges. However I seperate my personal tastes from that of what the rest of the world may or may not like. “Good” is definatly a personal thing. What is good to one is garbage to another.
Contributing “a handful of catchy songs” is hardly an acurate discription of thier body of work. They, and others like them, have written and recorded classic songs that will be loved and remebered by the genral public for decades to come. You dont need to create something “new & fresh” to be honored. Creating music that is timeless to millions is an achivement that should be not only recognized, but applauded as important as breaking new ground or creating music that is revered by a very small select group of musical snobs. (which is what most critics are)
Chart success if every bit as important as inovation. It represents what the majority of people love. Hence the “fame” in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
Personally I am all about inclusion, not exclusion. There should be a place for everyone who excels in thier particualr nitch of the music world.
I was actually being diplomatic when I said “handful of catchy songs.” I think more than half of Billy Joel’s catalog is garbage. He ranges from overly schmaltzy to insufferably shallow. He has some songs that I can understand why some people would find them moving or poignant. I personally don’t like them.
Taste and reactions to music is personal, but we’re talking about the HOF, which is the opposite. It’s voted by a committee of industry insiders and critics. Generally they’ve done fairly well in picking good artists. I just think the current year’s crop is pretty poor. A lot of critics are not snobs. Everyone has favorites that others would consider questionable taste!
Your sales argument is misguided at best. What’s your scale? Does an artist have to sell more than 100,000 copies of each album? That would disqualify Patti Smith and probably two dozen other Hall of Famers. Sorry Patti, you’re not famous enough. Please mail your award back.
I’m looking at the sales figures for 2007. Looks like, according to your criteria, future Hall of Famers should be Josh Groban, Daughtry, Linkin Park, Fergie, Taylor Swift, Alicia Keys and the cast of High School Musical!
Again your trying to pigeon hole my argument. Long term commercial success should be considered AS WELL AS innovation. BOTH have their place. BOTH deserve recognition.
1 year of commercial success doesn’t do it, billy joel, mellencmap, madonna have had DECADES of success. If any of the artists from 2007 can manage an career with the same kind of success they are currently enjoying, then yes, they would have to be considered for induction (although I think only alicia keys has a chance at it)
I think everyone who is in the hall is deserving. So the voters do a good job, but most of them are snobs. They however, recognize what you seem incapable of doing, that there is far more to music than the hip/cool pretentious choices.
Bubba, you get so close to simply making your point, but then you have to contradict yourself, I suppose in a lame attempt to provoke me. You say you like a large portion of what I listed, but that it’s snobbish and pretentious to nominate them for the Hall of Fame? What’s your position on, say, Patti Smith? Do you believe that people only pretend to like her to be “hip/cool” and no one simply genuinely, passionately loves her music?
I was simply picking on Billy Joel. I fully support the induction of most of the mainstream inductees, like Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson and Prince. And AC/DC! Lynyrd Skynyrd! They had hits, but also had a big impact on culture in their heyday. In fact, looking at the list I take exception to very, very few inductees. I just think this year in particular, aside from Leonard Cohen, the group is pretty artistically insignificant. The awards show is going to be boring compared to recent years. If members of the Ventures play, that’ll be fun, but I just think there’s many more deserving 60s bands than them still left off. I’m on the fence with Madonna. Her brand of dance pop has very little to do with Rock ‘n’ Roll. There are roots in disco and soul of course, and if Chic qualify, it’s not a big stretch to include Madonna. I’d personally place her near the bottom of a very long list of other more qualified candidates.
I’m sure the voting committee is rarely unanimous. Some vote for the “pretentious” choices, others populist, and a couple in the middle go back and forth.
I never said it was snobbish and pretentious to nominate them, far from it. I said its snobbish and pretentious to say they are the only, or even more deserving, artists. I have found over the years that a large number of people (not ALL) who claim to love those artists, who list them as thier favorites, are more likley to driving around listening to Hootie & The Blowfish or Journey than they are The Pixies or X. They throw the names out there because they are deluded into thinking that it is the ‘cool” thing to say, makes them sounds more musically sophsticated than saying they simply love Air Supply. That is what rock critics and journalists do, because thier jobs depend on them sounding like they know more than the mainstream fan, and sadly far too many people buy into that belief.
I have no doubt that there are people who have an undying passionate love of Patti Smith, and there are an equal, or greater, number of people who have the same love of Patty Smyth. (I happen to like both equally)
Neither group is wrong in thier love. Again, what is art to one is crap to another. Where someone hears inovation, other hear noise for the sake of noise. Where one hears schmaltz another hears words that perfectly articulate how they feel. Its all a mater of perspective.
Madonna is every bit as much “Rock & Roll” as The Clash. She however, is not “rock”. And that is the point of my original arguement. Rock & Roll covers a far wider range of music than most would believe, because most simply dont know what “Rock & Roll” really is. The HOF recognise’s what it is, and inducts artists that fall into some nitch in the rock & roll umbrella.
Another side note, CHIC should be in. Without a doubt.
Chic were nominated, but not yet inducted. Here’s the list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame_inductees
I love how people make up these imaginary pseudo-hipster critics. I doubt very much that you know any professional critics well enough to know what they listen to in the car or at home. I have a few acquaintances who make a living at it, and though I don’t hang out with them on that level, I’d bet a year’s salary they don’t listen to Hootie for pleasure. Any critic who listens to a few hundred albums a year for their job will certainly have some guilty pleasures as palate-cleansers, but Hootie? Naw. Even Jim DeRogatis, who’s taste I think has been taking a downward spiral, disliked them enough to get fired from Rolling Stone for writing a negative review. I really don’t think he’d have relocated his family back to Chicago over a band he secretly loved.
I review music non-professionally and certainly do not lie about what I like. That’s just too lame. Of the 500+ critics that participate in the Pazz & Jop Poll, there may be a few hacks who work at daily papers who barely listen to more than 20 new albums a year, who might tweak their top ten a bit dishonestly. But I think it’s much more rare than people imagine.
Your right, I dont know any critics, and I didnt say I did. I said I know many pseudo-hipsters, and that they like to act like they listen to what critics claim they like.
Then in a seperate comment I said that critics also like to sound hip because thier jobs depend on them being supierior.
In response to Dixon Cravens post on 2/27 - AMEN! WHY have the Moody Blues NOT been inducted?? They are the finest band in history. This has been a topic of ongoing discussion I have had for years with other die-hard Moodies fans and the reason I have heard iterated countlessly is that Yoko Ono, who sits on the RRHOF Board, has a personal dislike for the Moodies and as long as she remains in a position of power with the RRHOF, the Moodies will never be inducted. There seems to be preferential treatment and bias among those at the top of the ladder! The Moody Blues, however, will always rate NUMBER ONE in my heart of hearts for more reasons than I could ever recount here!
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